Awwwwww your close-mindedness is absolutely adorable.

right on/ the illeagle helping the immoral...doesn't get any simpler

What do Veterans have to do with homosexuals and the Dream Act? Secondly, where do you think the money comes from to fund this nonsense? .

Is anyone surprised?

As I would never vote for low down lyin abortion lovin' Maryland Democrat

Unfortunately, I'm voting against against it, and I hope it loses. I'm not voting for illegals to get anything until they are legal and that requires them to leave the country and get to the back of the line.

Tax free living would be impossible...

Steve, Republicans in both houses of the General Assembly had already introduced bills that provided far greater benefits for veterans than what the democrats added into the Dream Act just so they can say Republicans that voted against the Dream Act voted against veterans benefits. without actually mentioning the Dream Act. This has been a common element in the Democrat playbook for decades and the sad thing is uninformed people like you that get their facts from liberal propaganda and sound bites never actually look at the big picture.

Not "uninformed like me" Most of the Dumbos that signed the petition never even read the Bill. It was a knee jerk reaction from the ignorant and uneducated. They hear "Illegals" and they jump.

Really, illegals are propping up Social Security, what are you smokin?

Yep, if you cash a Social Security check , thank an Illegal!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1

Then let it crash.

This is one of the intentional "talking points" of those trying to wrestle the political system from voters. Its a BIG GIANT LIE. Soon we'll be divided completely and look like "Marxists" screaming at "Fascists," and vice versa. Lets stop this craziness! Corporations are using conservatives to fight with liberals to keep us busy so they can undermine our government. They will eventually eliminate our right to vote once they have restricted it enough to diminish the power of voter resistance. While blather-heads like ALLSTAR are fighting those in favor of Human Rights he/she forgets that Fascist governments have historically denigrated Human Rights to squelch the power of political resistance. Expanding inclusiveness has never hurt people in this country. It may have hurt the profits of men who gain wealth by suppressing women. It may have hurt the profits of privileged plantation owners because others were included in a better pay scale. Privileged people have always tried to oppress those outside the circle of inclusion. And they likely always will. How exactly does allowing a gay or lesbian couple to get married affect your marriage when the way the two married people that you live next door to now does not affect your marriage.

What I find funny is that the RCC is backing tuition for illegals and fighting same sex marriage. Being part of the conservative Fascist agenda, they should be against the illegal tuition bill. OOPS! That's right- most of the illegals are Catholic! Money trumps ethics.

You Saul Alinsky liberals are all alike. You just don't get it. Homosexuals, can do what ever they like, I just don't want to pay for it, or have it thrown in my face. I couldn't care less how many children are born to fatherless homes, by irresponsible women who feel like it is their right to sleep around. I just don't want to pay for it. Get it?

Sorry RV, we get it. we just see it differently than you do. There was a time when Homosexuality was considered an illness by the scientific community. There was a time when cops raided bars just to beat on gay men. We have worked to change those things because it was wrong then and it would be wrong now. Just what are you paying for? And do you consider that we have paid for a public school system and a public criminal system to take care of your kids. We all live in this society and we should all share responsibility to support those systems. Some of don't care what you want to pay for or not. You use the highway system, the education system and the public water system that my tax money helps pay for. It did not get built on heterosexual money alone. And as far as no wanting to hear about homosexuality. maybe you should move to someplace that feels like you do. This is my country too. I helped build it and its time for bigots like you to shut up. You are priviledged and you want to keep others from having what you have. Cry me a river honey....

Mark, you mean all of the Republican legislators have turned you down? Wow. We haven't heard from McDonough lately. C'mon Pat, step up.

I haven't reached out specifically to him, But to those I have reached out to have ignored my request. I was directing most of my invitation to folks connected to issue oriented organizations like Equality Maryland and the Maryland Marriage Alliance. We wish to have both sides represented.

Are you serious? Do you think anyone with a different opinion is going to get a fair shake on these issues? Secondly, most people who feel this way are concerned about the backlash from the illegals in our society who are pushing for more state sponsored hand outs. Why do you think the liberals want unions to have open voting? There's reason they are called "Illegal".

Our country faces too many other more important issues to worry about this one for sure....it doesn't really matter one way or the other to mosy apathetic folks....I say, breed away!! have at it , sooner the better...get it over with...move on!!

This is an ill-advised alliance. Because of it, I will vote against same sex marriage. Equality Maryland should have stood on their own.

Please tell me how you know what you claim to know?

I disagree. The Gay Marriage issue should stand on its own. It has great merit on its own, but allying itself with the Dream Act weakens it. End the alliance, and I will vote for Gay Marriage and against the Dream Act. Keep the alliance, I will vote against both.

And what is wrong with "putting politics over policy?"

putting politics over policy means you vote with a political party no matter what they put for as policy. If you think about how unthinking that is you may not ask the previous question.

Mr. Patro,

I disagree with your assessment.

what exactly is your disagreement

To expand on what Mark said: I'd say that putting politics over policy means you are putting any perceived political move, which in reality has *little to no effect over policy* in comparison to actual legislation drafted, above what that actual policy does. In some cases, that may be you put your political party's stance on issues above your personal values, so you just vote on party lines as he mentioned.

In this case, the political alliance of two groups is more important to you than a policy which:

* Grants equal rights to homosexual couples. Those rights are critical, since they grant the spouse benefits rights from employers for things like health, dental, eyesight, etc. They also grant end of care rights like power of attorney. There's a lot more, I'm not the most eloquent speaker.
* Encourages the local wedding industry economy. Couples that stay in Maryland to get married will use Maryland based: hotels, wedding venues, caterers, transportation services, flowershops, card shops, etc. Traveling families from out of town will patronize Maryland businesses during their visit.
* Encourages homosexual job talent to stay in the state rather than defect to states with more homosexual friendly policy (Massachussettes for instance).

You are willing to risk denying equal rights and state economic benefits over political games that will only be important for this election cycle, even though the ballot lets you exclusively support the specific policies you like?

Mr. Patro,

I will attempt to answer your question, however, I am not sure I understand it.

As far as politics is concerned, and voting for a party is concerned, that does not apply to me as I do not belong to any political party. I am an Independent.

Now, when Equality Maryland allied itself with Dream Act Advocates, that indicated that Gay Marriage supported the Dream Act, which I do not. I cannot support an organization that supports that which I do not support, hence, my new opposition to Gay Marriage. I am opposed to Gay Marriage not because of their immediate issue, but because of the allies with whom they they have chosen to become Involved. I know that Gay Marriage should have stood on its own, and have taken a neutral or "no comment" stance on the Dream Act issue.

JNR, Well it appears to me that you are voting against "your nose to spite your face" as my grandmother used to say. It would be like me voting for Barack Obama because i don't like what a certain radio talk show host has to say about Mitt Romney even though I might (hypothetically) think he has a better plan for the future.

Bart, I tend to believe that "Unlikely alliance" would be because hispanics have historically been Catholic.

Good point, Barb, but how many Catholics kinda, sorta, don't exactly follow the teachings and rules of the Church? Birth control, sex before marriage, Church on Sunday, etc. The priests won't follow them to the ballot box.
And remember, Jesus only spoke of loving each other, and caring for the poor, not so much about gay marriage. That's mostly Old Testament stuff.

Bart- I think all the RCC is concerned with now is getting butts in the pews and money in the collection plates. Got to pay off all those lawsuits somehow! I understand that Hispanics are less the Cafeteria Catholics than Americans are. All part of their conservative Fascist agenda- build up their numbers, even by compromising their ethics.

I SEE DAN RODRICKS (BALTIMORE SUN) ONCE AGAIN HAS USED A NOTEWORTHY PIECE OF NEWS TO DEMONSTRATE HIS TWISTED SOCIAL VIEWS......NOW HE WRITES A COLUMN THAT COMPARES THE DOWN FALL OF A PRACTICING HOMOSEXUAL (NOW EX-CONGRESSMAN-BOB BAUMAN) WHO GOT BUSTED FOR SOLICITING YOUNG BOYS FOR SEX WITH THE DRUNK (BOAT) DRIVING ACCIDENT ENVOLVING DON DWYER.
"APPLES & ORANGES" FOR REAL.......THERE IS NOTHING REMOTELY SIMILAR BETWEEN THE DEVIANT ACTS OF A HOMO THAT CAN BE COMPARED TO A DRUNK DRIVING BOAT ACCIDENT, UNLESS YOU MAKE THE S-T-R-E-T-C-H THAT RODRICKS DOES. I SUPPOSE SINCE IN HIS MIND THE DRUNK DRIVER VIOLATED SOME BIBLICAL DICTUM WHILE THE OTHER JUST EXPRESSES HIS "LOVE" FOR YOUNG BOYS.....OF COURSE, RODRICKS HAS NEVER BEEN BEHIND THE WHEEL AFTER DRINKING (sarcasm)......BUT I WONDER ABOUT THE OTHER?

sorry about the caps ...locked..

Buck, Bauman was a pedophile, not gay. the two are not comparable. Soliciting underaged children and driving while intoxicated are both wrong. They are both illegal and therefore they are remotely similar. Being gay is not illegal nor immoral.

You're trying to change the direction if this thread. This is about an elected official who broke the law. This is about holding him to the same standards that you or I would be held to. We won't be going off on your tangent because it is off topic.

Bauman admitted to being gay...like Dwyer admitted to drinking....his admission may have been the result of his injuries, and the medication that he was given for pain...who knows! What was Bauman's excuse? You see...gays screw up, down all around....just like everyone else...get over it.

This bogus petition is a bit of a gay smear....a dream act..

Humor me as I'm not an expert on child sex age laws, but I thought you had to be 21 or younger in order to 'legally' have sex with a 16 year old...for everyone over 21, it was 18.

He has admitted to driving while intoxicated. If that was you or me on television making that admission we would have already been arrested. There is no presumption of innocence after an admission of guilt.

watch it for yourself. http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/08/24/police-say-lawmaker-could-face-charges-after-he-admits-to-operating-a-boat-while-intoxicated/

He still has the right of a trial and a defense to the charge.
Or hAsnthe constitution been revoked in the people's democratic republic of Montgomery county, home of the illegal alien.

I did not know that dwiwas a felony

Oh wait. Maybe we should bring it to referendum...

Pretty sure that you have been behind the wheel after drinking MarkPatro, and most likely everyone else that has ever had a few...get real, statements~ petitions like this work against your perceived real cause....I would vote against this silliness based on your history of involvement alone.....you're not a very worthy spokes person...pop your head out...

Yep..cops, lawyers, judges, pastors, teachers, politicians, mothers, fathers,gays,lesbians and most likely Patch Pigeons.....it's an American tradition to keep something as deadly as alcohol legal because of the revenue generated through the lives that are destroyed....no reason to petition Dwyer...there aren't many angels in the political arena.....gives gay focus a discriminating taste..

I thought it was funny Don "Dingdong" Dwyer told the press next day he blew a "point 2" (even before the police got the results back!). That sounded like .02- WBAL radio commented that was under the legal limit of .08. HOWEVER, he really blew a point 2-0h, or .20, which is more than twice the limit! He knew full well that he should have said a point 2-oh. He's a scumbag hiding in religious robes, and he's very lucky he didn't kill someone with his irresponsible antics. While I would hope he gets jail time, being a first offense it won't happen. Heck, Sam "One More for the Road" Moxley got two DWIs and never got jailtime!

These two groups did not merge. They are working together and speaking up for each other that's a way big difference than becoming one group. Its like the Independents in Congress working with one of the other parties to get legislation passed. The Independents do not need to become Democrat or Republican to do that.

Good point, If it's all about equal rights and the pursuit of perceived happiness anything should be counted equally. Why limit the happiness to just two? Why limit the equality to two? Why not just call it "Modified Marriage" ...anything goes?

"This has been the definition of marriage in civil societies for thousands of years"

What other definitions have been around? http://ezinearticles.com/?How-the-Definition-of-Marriage-Has-Changed-Over-Time&id=6921931

Which societies on this list are "civil"? Which ones does our current working definition of marriage coincide with?

Acting like there is a static definition for marriage has been rebuked time and time again.

On another note, I like the name upgrades: Bill Hussein O'Stalin is more creative than Thomas Paine tho.

This is a misrepresentation of what will happen. Immigrants come her to work, not to freeload. I see more American born twenty-somethings not working than I see immigrants not working. Their children are only eligible for tuition help if their parents can prove they have file income tax. Bill is a misinformation machine.

This is why I am saying your comments are based on misinformation. This is who FAIR is: http://www.adl.org/civil_rights/is_fair_unfair.pdf

FAIR has:
• acknowledged and defended having received grants reportedly totaling around $600,000 from the Pioneer Fund, which has been described by The New York Times as having been established for the express purpose of promoting research into eugenics, and which has sponsored projects based on the notion that Blacks are genetically less intelligent than whites.

• expressed support for an anti-immigration op-ed article by John Tanton, a FAIR founder and board member, in which immigrants were compared to bacteria. (Linda Chavez, a former official of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, has called Tanton’s views “anti-Hispanic, anti-Catholic, and not excusable.”)

• reflected hostility toward Hispanics and the Catholic Church when FAIR’s execu¬tive director, Dan Stein, told an interviewer, “Certainly we would encourage peo¬ple in other countries to have small families. Otherwise they’ll all be coming here, because there’s no room at the Vatican… Many [immigrants] hate America, hate everything the United States stands for. Talk to some of these Central Americans.”

• Sponsored a newspaper ad critical of a U. S. Senator’s position on immigration legis¬lation, in which a photo of the Senator, who is of Lebanese ancestry, was juxtaposed with one of a notorious Middle East terrorist; the ad suggested that the senator’s posi¬tion would cause Americans to be “needlessly exposed to the threat of terrorism from criminals like Osama bin Laden.” The Detroit Free Press recently described FAIR’s ad campaign regarding the senator (Spencer Abraham, R-MI) as “hysterical rhetoric … disingenuous and nativistic. It comes perilously close to a smear.”
• expressed approval of China’s forced abortion policy (in a column by Ben Wattenberg quoting Dan Stein) as an “international family planning program.”
• Provided a link on its Internet web site to that of the California-based Voice of Citizens Together (VCT), a strident anti-immigration group whose web site has referred to “Mexico’s invasion of the United States,” and predicted that “California will be taken over by Third World forces, led by Mexico, who have an axe to grind against European Americans.”

You have been placed in "check" as well Steve...please provide facts to support your argument, or it's check...mate!

Always...

See, I'm staying out of this one because this 'alliance' puts me in direct self conflict. I support one part of this, while I'm completely against the other.

that and it's Monday, and I have a server infrastructure to review today. Mondays are always the highest risk of finding 'over the weekend' issues.

Mark Patro has a history of "cut and paste comments" for he lacks of better words of his own....cut & paste won't cut it here Mark...get real for a change..

Bill, I am not just a Liberal, I am a Proud Liberal

No. I saw that. But you missed the part where that led to the referendum.

More information on how taxpayers are going to get shafted if illegal aliens get the reduced rates. That doesn't include how many are actually going to go for free and believe me they will be in the thousands.
http://www.helpsavemaryland.com/

Join Concerned Maryland Citizens Against the “MD Dream Act!”

IN-STATE TUITION IS NOT FREE: Taxpayers must cover the difference between Out-of-State Tuition & the much lower In-State Tuition rates as illegal immigrants displace out-of-state students attending Maryland universities.

University of Maryland Baltimore County or College Park = $17,000 PER ILLEGAL ALIEN STUDENT PER YEAR! Smaller but significant sums ($5,000 per year) will also have to be paid for each illegal alien student attending Maryland’s Community Colleges. Total - $44,000 per illegal over 4 years. Tuition costs will go up for all students! Taxpayer costs to subsidize college education will be in the TENS of MILLIONS.

DESERVING MARYLAND STUDENTS DISPLACED: Maryland universities average about 23% of their student population as Out-of-State, but are authorized to levels up to 30%. As the In-State Illegal Immigrant student population explodes, universities will displace In-State Citizen students rather than lucrative Out-of-State students!

MARYLAND TAXPAYERS ALREADY PAY TOO MUCH: More than $1.9 billion per year just for K-12 education, non-emergency healthcare & incarceration costs for illegal immigrants.

"IN-STATE TUITION IS NOT FREE:" your assumption is that the student could afford to pay the out-of-state rate. If he/she can't afford it he/she doesn't go and then nothing is paid.

Very weak argument.

In short, the taxpayers are getting shafted already so why not shaft them some more for ephemeral reasons.

this is the typical shifting of money around just like it is for other tax paying families in maryland. My parents worked and paid taxes while i was in a maryland HS. this is the first requirement of these students getting this status. They are not getting something from the state. they are taking us of instate tuition rates just like I did. Secondly they must complete two years at a Maryland community college before they can apply to a Maryland University. and thirdly. we as a community will benefit from have more educated individuals in this community who are likely to find employment not take use of government handouts in the future. Tell me how many student you expect to apply for this status as instate resident?

You need someone to explain to you how educated people use less in government services and pay more in taxes? Seriously?

Typical liberalism. If you disagree you are suddenly part of a hate group. Also, that example is ridiculous. Go read the article you linked. It states clearly that millions are involved at other colleges:
Kurtinitis called the issue "challenging" but said CCBC has not broken state law and allowed illegal immigrants to pay lower rates "like our colleagues down the road."

Kurtinitis later acknowledged she was speaking about Montgomery College, which is the subject of a lawsuit. Del. Pat McDonough, who is involved in the lawsuit, said the community college system has cost taxpayers $6 million by allowing illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition rates, which he said violates state and federal laws.

"We follow the law," Kurtinitis said. "Everyone pays what they are required to pay."

Kurtinitis said the 20 illegal immigrant students enrolled at CCBC pay the international rate.

The bill, passed during this year's 90-day General Assembly session, allows illegal immigrants to pay in-state tuition rates if they attended a Maryland high school for three years and can prove their parents paid taxes.

Such productive and respectful conversations we're having here.

*rolls his eyes*

Frank - Why must you go right to the "hate" line? If you disagree with Romney, does this make you a hate monger against Mormons? If Bill disagrees with your views, it does not make his as filled with hate and vitriol as you seem to be. However, it is his right to disagree.

Frank - Why must you go right to the "hate" line? If you disagree with Romney, does this make you a hate monger against Mormons? If Bill disagrees with your views, it does not make his as filled with hate and vitriol as you seem to be. He has the right to express his opinion free from hate, as I am sure you would demand the same.

But you still cannot escape the fact that these people are here illegally and broke our laws. That's a fact.

Frank - What did Bill say that was "hate"? Steve is accusing any who disagree with being "white supremacist". Why is it that, if you dare to disagree with some, you are labeled a "hater" yet they can disagree all they wish without the same label? Why do you attack the Tea Party while decrying any who would dare to comment against CASA or any LGBT group? Why are you such a hypocrite?

How are you going to protect residents from inflation Bill?

by stop blowing hot air into this blog

Hey Stevie,

The most credible figure I've seen is 28 million the first year. Bound to increase as the word gets out to illegals in surrounding states, and maybe even foreign countries.

OMG! Tom might have to learn Spanish or something...

Well I feel better that Steve, the consumate liberal, doesn't think people that have crossed our borders illegally, would make another move to a state that is providing more. What rock do you live under?

You should take a little time and actually read the law instead of parroting the Hate Group's talking points. LOL " Hispanic families tend to be large".

Your bigotry is showing. Where does this law even mention "Hispanic Families"?

Your Patch pigeon feathers are beginning to show again Frank...please don't share the ruffle...

CASA hasn't engaged in any voter suppression. It was the poll judges from Help Save Maryland" that were participating in the votes suppression.

There is no fear. The Civil marriage Law will be upheld. The argument is that civil right should not be voted on, period.

Bill, I don't believe I mentioned the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as something that was voted on. You suggested that. And, the title of this article and at this moment we are referring to Question 6 in Maryland. Does that clear things up. There is no need to be calling people "stupid".

That is the subject of the attached article link.

What is there to fear regarding same sex marriage exactly? What is rational about fearing it?

I'm afraid of Yetis. No one has ever owned a Yeti as a pet, and while I haven't observed Yetis killing people in Maryland, who knows when they're going to! I feel it is in our interest to pass legislation that outlaws owning Yetis as pets. Yetis have enough rights as free roaming mountain folk - why do they need to be pets as well? And don't you dare try to insult me with your "fearing Yetis is irrational" statements.

Steve,

If you call those who oppose your views haters, what label should be applied to you?

I think in the case of these "Help Save Maryland" clowns, their hatred is based on fear.

Unfortunately, life today is not that simple, especially in an environment of radical islamic terrorists that want to kill Americans at any time opportunity. Anyone that wants to enter this country for an opportunity for a better life is welcome here, but you must do so legally. "Live and let live" - tell that to Al Qaeda.

They are not welcome here. Not by any stretch. The average wait for a UK citizen to move here is 7 years. It's even longer for other countries That's not welcoming.

So some folks wait 7 years to do it legally? Then please explain why it is just to financially reward those who do it illegally.

I find that very hard to believe. But even if true, why is it just to reward those who break the law, and effectively punish those who follow the law.

So your position Steve is just disregard the law if you can't get what you want fast enough? Sounds like anarchy.